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Official Q&A: VEX V5 Robotics Competition 2024-2025: High Stakes

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2421: Ring Rushes in Relation to SG7 + G17 + SG8 and Q and A 2066

360X
5-Jan-2025

<G17><SG7><SG8>

Hi!

Q and A https://www.robotevents.com/V5RC/2024-2025/QA/2066 asks a question regarding sending Rings from one side of the field to the other and those interferring with the opponents autonomous.

The response that was given was "Pushing a Ring (or Mobile Goal) that starts on your side (or on) the Autonomous Line to the other side could result in a <G17> Violation if that Ring or Mobile Goal interferes with the opponent's autonomous routine."

To me, this means means that if for example the Blue Alliance grabs the bottom Rings on their side of the autonomous line, from the middle stack on the Negative side (which are blue), but in the process slightly knocks over the Blue Rings on the top of the middle stack on the other side of the auton line, which the Red Alliance then intakes, then this would automatically be an autonomous win for Red. This is pictured in the photo below with 2145Z who is on the Red Alliance.

img

Would this be the correct intepretation of the rule? If so, what are teams supposed to do in order to not knock over the Rings, and at what point does <SG8>, which states "Engage with the Autonomous Line at your own risk. Any Robot who engages with Scoring Objects and/or Wall Stakes on the Autonomous Line should be aware that opponent Robots may also choose to do the same. Per <G11> and <G12>, Teams are responsible for the actions of their Robots at all times." come into play?

Another example I want to bring up is the Ring rush that was originally developed by our team, 360X. The Ring rush is designed to grab the both of the bottom Rings that start on our side of the autonomus line, but still touching it (those Rings are our color), before the other alliance is able to get to the stack. <SG8>, again regards engaging with the autonomous line, and the note in <SG7> which states "Note: Scoring Objects, Wall Stakes, and portions of the Ladder that contact or are positioned above the Autonomous Line are not considered to be on either side, and may be utilized by either Alliance during the Autonomous Period." essentially saying that either Alliance is allowed to grab any Rings from that stack. Thus, we have this Ring rush to ensure that we grab the Rings before the other Alliance gets to the stack and knocks it over, which is bound to happen even if all you are trying to do is get your own Rings, something permitted by <G17>.

A photo is attached here of the stack after the Ring rush:

img

I have a few questions related to this. First, is knocking over the stack like we did illegal (and thus an auton forfeit)? Second, if knocking over the stack is legal, but then the other Alliance intakes one of the Rings of our color, is that then illegal (and again, an auton forfeit)? Third, I have the same questions regarding the stack on the right in the video which starts completely on the other Alliances side of the auton line, and is not neutral in any sense.

And again, I pose the question, if the other team intakes the wrong color Ring as a result of us touching the middle stack, what are we supposed to do in order to get those Rings?

G17   SG7   SG8  
Answered by committee
16-Jan-2025

There are a lot of questions in your post, and we're going to skip to your final set with the hope that you'll be able to use those answers to draw your own conclusions about the scenarios you describe. If you feel like we've missed something, please feel free to rephrase (briefly and concisely, please!) and repost.

I have a few questions related to this. First, is knocking over the stack like we did illegal (and thus an auton forfeit)? Knocking over a stack of Rings that begins on the Autonomous Line is legal.

Second, if knocking over the stack is legal, but then the other Alliance intakes one of the Rings of our color, is that then illegal (and again, an auton forfeit)?

Knocking over a stack of Rings that begins on the Autonomous Line is still legal even if it results in an opponent picking up the "wrong" color of Ring during the Autonomous Period. It's part of the risk described in rule <SG9>.

Third, I have the same questions regarding the stack on the right in the video which starts completely on the other Alliances side of the auton line, and is not neutral in any sense.

This example eliminates much of the safety a Robot should get from the divided Field in the Autonomous Period, and could reasonably be deemed an <SG7> Violation (via rule <G17> at the Head Referee's discretion.

Generally speaking, we believe that if you knock something off of the Autonomous Line to the other side and it's just an incidental part of normal gameplay, it shouldn't be a penalty. If you use an object from the Autonomous Line as a "glove" to break another rule (entanglement, tipping, damage, etc.), it probably should be. If you move an object all the way from your side to theirs and it clearly messes up their autonomous routine, it should probably be an <SG7> penalty and you should likely be ineligible to receive all or part of the Autonomous Bonus and/or an AWP. We hope this helps.