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Official Q&A: VRC 2022-2023: Spin Up

Usage Guidelines All Questions

<SG7> Possession, Can A Bot Score or Descroe 4 or More Discs by Pushing


Daniel Riedinger (Event Partner)
16-Oct-2022

During game play the Red Alliance has attempted many shots at their high goal. Many of these have fallen into the low goal for the Blue Alliance. Additionally, the Blue Alliance robot has been repeatedly collecting three discs from the field and placing them into the low goal throughout the match. With 20 seconds left on the clock Robot Red One enters the Blue Low Goal, sweeps through and successfully pushes 12 discs out of the Blue Low Goal in one move with the broad, but flat, front of their robot.

The Red Alliance won the match.

Pertinent Rules

<SC7> Possession is limited to three (3) Discs. Robots may not have greater-than-momentary Possession of more than three (3) Discs at once. Robots in Violation of this rule must immediately stop all Robot actions except for attempting to remove the excess Disc(s). Note: This rule applies to both intentional and accidental Possession.

Violation Notes: Any intentional Violation by an Alliance who wins the Match will be considered Match Affecting. Egregious Violations, such as continuing to play other portions of the Game (e.g., Rollers or Endgame) without attempting to remove excess Discs for the majority of the Match, or “accidentally” Possessing an egregious amount of Discs, may also be considered Major Violations at the Head Referee’s discretion.

Other than a situation involving a blatantly intentional Violation of <G14>, any Robot which is in Possession of more than three Discs is in Violation of this rule, regardless of intent, circumstance, or context. It is extremely difficult to extrapolate how limiting an opponent’s access to game objects, even temporarily, may impact a Match. Therefore, in general, it is a Team’s responsibility to ensure that: a. Their Robots are designed to mitigate the possibility of controversial rulings (e.g., they cannot physically Possess more than the permitted Disc limit). b. Their strategies during a Match mitigate the possibility of controversial rulings (e.g., they do not attempt to score any points while Possessing four or more Discs).

Possession - A Robot / Disc status. A Robot is considered to be in Possession of a Disc if the Robot is carrying, holding, or controlling the movement of a Disc such that if the Robot changes direction, the Disc will move with the Robot. Therefore, pushing / plowing Discs is not considered Possession; however, using concave portions of a Robot to control the movement of Discs is considered Possession.

The argument in favor of this being a major violation of <SG7> relies on the word control. Descoring 12 discs would imply control, just as scoring 12 or even 4 discs would be an act of control. If it is agreed that control of the discs is “Possession.” Then Robot Red One possessed 12 discs. Customarily the pushing example of not be possesion applied to the open field and not while scoring or descoring. As in just plowing through a stack of discs.

Additionally Red One did not obey “Robots in Violation of this rule must immediately stop all Robot actions except for attempting to remove the excess Disc(s).”

“Any intentional Violation by an Alliance who wins the Match will be considered Match Affecting,” would also apply as well as “It is extremely difficult to extrapolate how limiting an opponent’s access to game objects, even temporarily, may impact a Match.”

Likewise “b. Their strategies during a Match mitigate the possibility of controversial rulings (e.g., they do not attempt to score any points while Possessing four or more Discs).” Descoring 12 discs would have the same effect as scoring 12 discs.

Eight times in the game manual and countless more times in the Q and A the phrase “Spirit of the rule,” or Spirit of the Competition,” is used. Descoring 12 discs seems to be in conflict with the Spirit of <SG7>.

In Spin Up, teams aiming for the high goal have the calculated risk that their shots will land in the low goal for the other team. If a team can then just sweep out the discs from the low goal at the end of the game the risk is diminished to near zero.

The argument that Red One is not in violation of <SG7> is centered on the second half of the definition of Possession. “or controlling the movement of a Disc such that if the Robot changes direction, the Disc will move with the Robot. Therefore, pushing / plowing Discs is not considered Possession; however, using concave portions of a Robot to control the movement of Discs is considered Possession.” Red One would argue that their robot is not Concave, and that pushing is allowed by this definition. This is a strong and simple defense of Red One’s actions.

Can you suggest how a referee should rule in this situation, or would it be up to the Head Referee’s discretion?

Answered by committee

During game play the Red Alliance has attempted many shots at their high goal. Many of these have fallen into the low goal for the Blue Alliance. Additionally, the Blue Alliance robot has been repeatedly collecting three discs from the field and placing them into the low goal throughout the match. With 20 seconds left on the clock Robot Red One enters the Blue Low Goal, sweeps through and successfully pushes 12 discs out of the Blue Low Goal in one move with the broad, but flat, front of their robot.

The Red Alliance won the match.

Can you suggest how a referee should rule in this situation, or would it be up to the Head Referee’s discretion?

Thank you for your question. As you quoted, the definition of Possession is "A Robot is considered to be in Possession of a Disc if the Robot is carrying, holding, or controlling the movement of a Disc such that if the Robot changes direction, the Disc will move with the Robot. Therefore, pushing / plowing Discs is not considered Possession; however, using concave portions of a Robot to control the movement of Discs is considered Possession."

You describe the front of red Robot as "broad, but flat," (not concave) and their action as "pushing," which is directly excluded from the definition of Possession.

Because the Robot action you described does not meet the definition of Possession, and the Robot is not controlling the Discs as described in that definition, the team is not in violation of rule <SC7> and is not required to stop other actions.

Descoring Discs from a Low Goal is entirely within the spirit of the Spin Up competition, and is not prohibited. In Spin Up, Teams aiming to score in the Low Goal have the calculated risk that their Discs will be descored by the other Team.